Okay so in my last post, I mentioned the large number of skeptics who give me hell or get all judge-y and condescending for choosing to believe that astrology has merit, and that I’ve never met one of these people who knew literally anything about it.
And sure enough, one such person poked his head up. Surprising, right? Aren’t you surprised? Because I’m totally surprised.
See this? It’s my “surprised” face.
But he wasn’t just condescending, he did one better (by not even reading the entire post before making his condescending comment, *Edit* and something else that seriously made my day), and since I’m just a bit argumentative (possibly because I’m an ENTP, possibly because I’m Air and Mercury Dominant in Aquarius, with Sun conjunct Mercury, or maybe just because I’m a bitch who loves to point out when people are flat-out wrong), I couldn’t resist.
Aww, aren’t you precious.
It’s so cute when people try to be condescending, touting their imagined intelligence. Especially when their comment contains numerous grammatical errors.
And most especially when their comment reveals the fact that they didn’t bother reading the entire post before telling me why I’m wrong (and literally proving my original point about these obnoxious skeptics).
Like, I literally just got done talking about how the obnoxious, condescending skeptics prefer ignorance, that they jump to their precious conclusions without knowing anything about it, and here’s a guy who proves my point beautifully. He didn’t even bother reading the next four paragraphs of my post (much less the whole thing). He stopped at that sentence, jumped to his conclusions, and did the whole “do a simple blind study and win a million dollars. Easy money” thing.
And for the record, from this point forward, unless I specifically say otherwise, when I use the word “skeptic,” I am talking exclusively about those who get all judge-y and condescending, and feel compelled to give me shit about something they know literally nothing about. I know a great deal of skeptics who are extremely respectful, and we can discuss it civilly and politely. Nothing I’m going to say applies to those people.
But that’s not how things work? The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.”
Okay, so since reading is hard (and I know I got super science-y and technical in my last post, you may not have been able to follow if even if you’d taken the time to read it), I actually quoted 2 specific studies of astrology that literally did that exact thing. One by Clark, one by Gauqelin. I also pointed out that Gauqelin’s results were replicated 3 times, by 3 different organizations, in 3 different countries.
Which you would’ve known, had you bothered to read the entire post before telling me why I’m wrong.
Also, we don’t have “extraordinary evidence” that the Big Bang, dark matter, and dark energy exist. Those are some pretty extraordinary claims. But using what we currently know and understand, we agree that it’s extremely plausible, to the point that it’s generally accepted as fact. Are you saying you don’t believe in those things? That you’re incapable of understanding or acknowledging something you cannot see or touch, because it hasn’t been proven?
That’s a depressing way to go through life. And what’s more, every astrophysicist, quantum physicist (or quantum anything, really), and physical cosmologist thinks you’re an idiot. I mean, that’s literally how these people make their living, by imagining things currently beyond the scope of our understanding, and entertaining the idea that it might be true.
Did you read literally anything past the sentence you quoted? Or, like many obnoxious skeptics, did you not bother to learn shit before making your snap judgement?
That’s a hypothetical question, by the way. Don’t answer it, I already know the answer (look at that, I’m like totally psychic). Because I’ve had this same conversation a hundred times with a hundred people exactly like you.
And, like I said in my post that you didn’t read, I have no desire to argue or debate with those who prefer ignorance to education.
Oh, but there is just one quick, teensy little thing….
But for the record: Just do a simple blind study of astrology and you will get one million dollar if it works. Easy money.
*Edit* So the commentor goes by Randy, and the url he provided is literally the link to the Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge (which was created by James Randi, and I’m assuming the commentor’s name “Randy” is a play on that), which makes all of this so much better.
Like, a million times better. Oh my God, I literally, actually laughed out loud when I saw that. Like, totally ugly laughed. You guys seriously have no idea how happy this made me.
Okay, so the million-dollar thing was called the One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge (I know, Google is hard *Edit* especially when you were literally on the website), and the challenge was to prove the validity of ESP, and paranormal claims, not astrology. Not a single applicant accepted for testing was an astrologer.
You know, since multiple studies have literally already proven the validity of astrology. Which, had you kept reading the next four paragraphs of the post after the sentence you quoted, you would have known.
Also (*Edit* and this is my favorite part, you guys) the challenge was terminated.
Which it says, in big-ass bold letters, at the top of the page you linked to.
*Edit again* No seriously, how did you not know the challenge was terminated? I mean, I know you didn’t read my post, but I figured you’d at least skim the shit you actually agree with on that site. Like, how is that even possible, that you’d link to that site, but not know that it says, right up at the top, in bold letters, that they terminated the challenge?
Three astrologers applied. None were accepted. The most hilarious exchange was between the JREF (that’s the organization hosting the challenge, I know you didn’t know that *Edit* even though you were literally on that website. Seriously, it’s almost not fair how much I’m enjoying this). Look, I really am like totally super psychic!) challenge facilitator and an astrologer named John. A. “JAK” Keeran.
It’s hilarious because the JREF would literally not accept drivers’ licenses or birth certificates as legitimate proof of birth date, paternity, or biological parents’ birth dates. JAK was never tested because they could not agree on acceptable proof of one’s birthday or parentage.
Oh and also, they didn’t like the idea of him using both astrological skeptics and believers in his data pool, because that’s something that made sense to them, while he wanted an equal number, or at least generally equal number, of skeptics and believers. Because he felt that was the most objective method, that it would ensure that a group of nothing but believers couldn’t potentially slant their own answers to fit the test. JREF felt that having skeptics specifically could somehow skew the results in his favor, and give him an “out” if the tests disproved his claim.
And while they said it had to be a double-blind test, somehow JAK was supposed to gather the group, interact with them, and get data from them. Which is like, the literal opposite of a double-blind test. When he pointed this out, and voiced concern that direct involvement with the subjects could potentially taint the test, their response was (I’m paraphrasing here) “Oh well, sucks to be you. I guess you just can’t do the test after all.”
Oh, but tell me more about how objective and scientific and totally not-ridiculous that challenge was. You can see the records by the challenge facilitator, and see just how demeaning and insulting he was to everyone who applied. He openly mocked them, and was proud of it.
Whether their claims were bullshit or not doesn’t matter. I happen to think 99% of anyone who claims any kind of paranormal thing is full of shit. You won’t see me openly mock or insult them, though.
I know, it’s weird, right? It’s almost like I’m a better, more compassionate, tolerant, and open-minded human being, capable of recognizing that other people have other experiences and thought processes that lead them to different conclusions that, while I may not agree, I can accept as valid to that individual.
No, I save the mockery and insults for hypocrites, the willfully ignorant, and those who think they can come on my blog, say something demeaning (and incorrect) and not get publicly ripped to shreds.
So yeah, that challenge was a complete scam, by an organization (which was not a scientific organization, by the way *Edit* and you probably should’ve noticed that when you were literally on their website) run and headed by a former magician. It was so widely criticized, it was eventually terminated, citing wanting to use the money for other purposes as their reason (*Edit* which it literally says, right at the top, in big bold letters, on the website you were on when you copied and pasted the link to show how super smart you are)
And it’s hilarious to me that every obnoxious skeptic immediately brings up that challenge, knowing literally nothing about it, such as the qualifications for applicants, the “controlled” parameters, or the fact that applicants had to sign away their right to an attorney and had no access to the results of the tests, meaning that the organization could legally slant or change the results altogether to suit their purposes.
Whether the organization actually changed results or not, I don’t care. If their goal was truly to objectively prove or disprove the existence of paranormal abilities, why would they need to use such underhanded methods?
Uh, cuz it wasn’t objective, bro.
You know, facts and all.
The only “challenge” ever open specifically to astrologers was to see if they could correctly answer questions about future election results. Since astrology doesn’t predict the future (and it’s kind of laughable, and stupid, to think that astrology does that, and kinda just proves the ignorance of the skeptics running the test), that challenge was never won, and every time someone new opens that challenge (there has been more than one), no astrologist will ever win.
There’s also one open to anyone who claims to use paranormal abilities or astrology to diagnose and treat a range of illnesses. Again, astrology does not do that, so no astrologer will ever win it.
So, since no astrologer will ever win those challenges, that must prove astrology is bullshit, right?
Or is it possible the challenges themselves are slanted, knowingly or unknowingly, by skeptics specifically looking for flaws? Or, more likely, by skeptics who are totally ignorant about what astrology actually is and have no desire to educate themselves?
Since, again, actual, objective scientists, using actual scientific method, repeatedly found validity in the practice.
Repeatedly. As in, more than once. As in, not an isolated incident.
As in, there are literally more tests and studies proving the validity of astrology than there are proving that it’s no better than chance.
Because of the studies that exist that claim to disprove astrology, a) I have a hell of a hard time finding the actual scientific studies themselves, published in the actual scientific journals, which immediately sends up red flags. Any medical or scientific study that does not make its findings public screams “fraud” to me, but then again, I think Andrew Wakefield is a fraud, while a great number of people worship him as their cult leader, so what do I know?
B) They are made based on claims that don’t actually exist among professional astrologers (yeah, no astrologer can “predict your marital status at age 30” by using your birth chart, bro. And none of the astrologers I’ve ever met have literally ever claimed to be able to do that. What a shock that the study using that as their basis found no correlation), such as predicting the future or someone’s IQ, or whether they will die in an accidental death. I mean, really? Is that what all you skeptics think we believe? Like for real? You actually think that?
No seriously, show me where any astrologer claims to be able to determine your height from your birth chart. That one, I’ve never even heard of. But apparently some skeptics in India think that birth charts are supposed to do that. What a shock, that study found no correlation, either.
There’s this one dude in Mumbai, named Raiyani, who tried to literally ban all public astrology practices. He went to an event and issued a challenge. These are his exact words:
“I said, you give me 12 predictions for every month-end about the movement of the Sensex, of inflation as per the price index, and the quantum of rain [in some of the main cities of India].”
He goes on to snidely say, “Predictably, no one responded.”
Uh, yeah, bro. It’s not a damn weather service. It’s not an economic guide. It doesn’t show you how to game the Stock Market. Those who are educated about astrology know this. And we don’t pretend astrology can do what it can’t.
Also, c) astrologers will flat-out admit that astrology has limits, and will readily publish studies showing such limits (as opposed to the skeptical organizations in Belgium and France, who waited 8 and 14 years, respectively, to publish their positive results, because they didn’t like the answer they got).
Nona Press, an astrologer, gathered a few hundred birth charts from those who committed suicide in New York City between 1969-1973, and they found no significant correlation between suicide and astrology (which, to me, is common sense, but this was also 40-ish years ago, and apparently there were some people back then who thought astrology and suicide were somehow linked). Quick, wanna guess how many years they waited to publish those results? It wasn’t 14. It wasn’t 8, either.
Oh, but astrologers are the biased, ignorant, close-minded ones.
So um, the burden of proof is actually on the skeptics to show that those tests and studies are wrong. Cuz as of right now, claiming that it’s complete bullshit is more extraordinary than claiming it has validity. Since multiple people in France, Belgium, and the US already tried to prove one study wrong, and literally couldn’t.
Facts are hard, I know.
But no it’s cool. It’s totally cool to cite that paranormal challenge when you don’t know anything about it (you know, such as the fact that it’s been terminated).
Just like it’s totally cool to get all condescending about something you know literally nothing about. And didn’t even bother reading the entire post, because your ignorance is just that important to you.
You wouldn’t happen to work for Trump, would you? If not, man, you missed your calling.
So I have a challenge for you (assuming, of course, you’re still reading this and didn’t stop after some random comment ten paragraphs ago. I don’t have high hopes that you’re still with me, but we’ll see). It’s the same challenge I’ve issued to every obnoxious skeptic who tries to get all condescending with me. And just like your dear James Randi, no one has “won” my challenge.
In fact, while I’ve issued this challenge to literally every obnoxious skeptic who has given me shit for it (along with a few non-obnoxious skeptics, who have been respectful), only 3 people have ever taken me up on it, and one was Kazander.
Kazander was never obnoxious about his skepticism. He was honest, direct, and polite, and that’s fine with me. A few months ago, though, we were talking and I brought it up and he again reiterated that he thinks it’s bullshit. So I issued the challenge, and because he is capable of changing his perspective when presented with conflicting information, he took me up on it, and discovered that he was wrong.
Interestingly enough, the other two who took me up on it didn’t fall under the “obnoxious skeptic” category, either. It’s almost like those who jump to conclusions and feel the need to be condescending and put down other people are afraid that they’ll be proven wrong, because they cannot handle the world not fitting inside their precious little box.
But as I was saying, only three people have ever taken me up on it.
Those three people are not skeptics anymore.
So here’s my challenge: Tell me I’m wrong.
You want burden of proof? M’kay then, I’ll prove it.
Give me the time, date, and location (city, state, county, country… or territory, whatever) of your birth. Then give me a few days (these things are labor-intensive as fuck, I never do them for free, but I can be just a smidge spiteful – you know, it’s the Aquarius in me – and the chance to publicly show you up is more than worth the 10-15+ hours of my time it’ll take).
Give me that, and literally nothing else. I don’t want to know anything else about you. Then, when I’ve got your natal chart analyzed, tell me I’m wrong. Tell me it’s not accurate af.
I’ll even post it here, so other people of different astrological signs can read it and weigh in. That way you can’t cite the professor who handed out “individualized personality profiles” to his class, who scored it with an 80% accuracy, and then found out they all received the exact same thing (which, incidentally, was Gauquelin. Does that name sound familiar? It should, because he’s the dude who found the correlation in the positions of specific planets in celebrities. He was in no way a believer of astrology, and he openly professed his skepticism. He also openly professed that at least parts of it just cannot be explained by coincidence and random chance, and that there is validity to it).
If you’re a Cancer with Saturn and the Moon Dominant, chances are that there won’t be a hell of a lot in there that a Sagittarius with Mercury and Jupiter Dominant can relate to.
If you’re so sure it’s full of shit, you shouldn’t have a problem with that. And if you’re so enlightened and educated, you shouldn’t have a problem admitting that you were wrong, and recognizing that being a judge-y douchebag probably isn’t the best way to navigate through life.
Oh and since you know everything you need to know about astrology, without having to read anything, do me a quick favor and calculate the ecliptical geocentric longitude on the eastern horizon at the time of your birth. That’ll make things quicker for me, since I won’t have to do it for you. It’ll help me out when I line up the Houses with Signs, and it’ll help me figure out your planetary chart ruler.
And just in case you don’t know how to calculate it, here’s the equation I use. Just remember that you have to use sidereal time, not solar time, and that makes a big difference. Since sidereal days are like 5 minutes longer than solar days.
But it’s cool, if that intimidates you, or you don’t know how, or if you’re not familiar with the field of astronomy, I’m happy to do it for you.
You probably won’t take me up on it, though (remember, I’m like totally psychic. I know these things). No obnoxious skeptic ever does. And because you choose to make condescending remarks without reading the rest of the post, because you cling to your ignorance and don’t bother reading what I wrote about it in the first place, anything you have to say outside of your birth info, I’m just not interested in hearing.
Good talk, though.