Wake-up call

I received this comment on my Feeding the Troll post.

Well, thanks for triggering me with what a lot of guys in my age range have always suspected; being, or even just acting submissive, is a major turn-off for women.

*retreats to safe space*

I’m being cheeky here, but I’m bringing up a serious point: Her attitude is something that has kept a lot of guys like me from even bringing up the topic. Or we sound out our partners in these convoluted ways so as not to attract suspicion. Or we play it up for laughs. And even when we have a partner who seems indulgent, we still keep the idea in the back of our heads that she’s just playing along and slowly losing respect for us. And the way submissive men get portrayed in the media certainly doesn’t help.

Oh, and thanks for sticking up for us.

You’re absolutely right.  Bigoted, ignorant idiots are everywhere, and the social stigma surrounding submissive men, particularly in the US, is still going strong.

But I beg you, and every man like you, not to let these idiots discourage you from coming out about who you are.

These idiots don’t just demean and remove value from submissive men, but from all men, and women, as well.

One article discussed the idea of masculinity and submission, and touched on the reasons for so many within the kink community being “uncomfortable” with male submission, including one particular Dom’s reaction: “I want to say, ‘be a man!'”

*Edit* Tough fucking love time, because as I was editing and rereading this longwinded shit in my current mood, I decided to add something, and break it up into two posts.  Because before I get into all the psychology and studies and statistics and evidence that shows why idiots are idiots, I want to add something a little more blunt.  

This is directed to all submissive men who have been guilty of the attitudes I’m going to address, not specifically at the commenter or the specific situations he described.  And yeah, I’m in a fucking mood, so this isn’t going to be particularly nice.  Deal with it.  Hopefully this’ll be a wake-up call for at least some of you.

Here’s a life lesson: not everyone is going to be into you.  Not everyone is going to want you.  Not everyone is going to respect you.  But, to paraphrase something I told a BBW who wrote me about the concern that not every man is going to be into BBWs, who the fuck cares?

Welcome to the world of straight women.  We’ve only been dealing with the same thing for a few thousand years.  You think everyone is into me?  You think everyone respects me?  You think no one looks down at me?

You think I fucking care?

You think I care that some straight woman, that I will never fuck or be in a relationship with, thinks I’m not a “real woman?”  You think I care that a shitload of Doms, who I will never be even remotely interested in romantically or sexually, don’t respect me?  In a vanilla equivalent, you think I care that some super fit health nut gets all condescending because I’m a BBW, and tells me I’m not beautiful?

No.  I don’t.

Because A) I don’t base my worth as a person on how strangers view me, and B) there is literally no shortage of people who do think I’m a real woman, who respect me, who think I’m beautiful.  So fuck the people who don’t.  I don’t care.

Dommes everywhere are annoyed as fuck because it feels like submissive men care more about the opinions of strangers, strangers they don’t even want relationships with (like submissive women and Dominant men), than they care about us.  The people who desperately want them.

It’s annoying.  In most cases, it’s damn infuriating.  That Dom said, “I want to say, ‘be a man!'”

Well, I want to tell you all the same goddamn thing.

You have no idea how it feels to be a Domme and constantly feel unwanted because of a submissive man’s insecurity.  You’re all so busy worrying about what strangers will think about you, or what vanilla women will think of you, you don’t even realize that you’re completely snubbing the women who adore you.

You’re so goddamn busy being ashamed of who you are, you don’t even realize that your actions consistently make Dommes feel like you’re ashamed of them.  You’re so worried about vanilla women and submissive women, you’re completely ignoring the millions of women who are at the fucking munches, waiting for you, hoping you’ll grow enough balls to show the fuck up.

And even when you do find a Domme, you’re so busy trying to keep your dynamic a secret, keep her a secret, that you don’t even notice how shitty you’re treating her, how you’re making her feel.

Do you have any fucking idea how tough it is to be a Dominant woman when, not only do the vanilla world and Maledom world not want you, but even the straight sub men are ashamed to be associated with you?

Do you have any idea what kind of strength it takes to continue being who you are when even the men who say they want you are telling you you’re wrong for being who you are?

You bitch about how jaded and rude we are when you message us.  You whine and complain about how hard it is to find a “real Domme.”

Fuck you.

Where do you think that comes from?  How do you think we got so guarded in the first place?

You did it.  You did it by being ashamed of us, you did it by being sexist pigs in your messages to us, continuing the pattern of caring only about yourselves, and your fantasies, and how we can satisfy your desires, while refusing to see us as people.  You did it by insulting us or threatening us when we called you out for being sexist pigs.

Want to know how many messages/emails I’ve gotten from Dominant men in the last year?  Seven.

Want to know how many messages/emails I’ve gotten from submissive men in the last year?  Thousands.

Want to know how many Dominant men have been disrespectful, or rude, or seen me as nothing but their personal fetish delivery system?  Zero.

Want to know how many submissive men have been disrespectful, or rude, or seen me as nothing but their personal fetish delivery system?  Thousands.

Want to know how many Dominant men have insulted or threatened me in any of their messages in the last year?  Literally zero.

Want to know how many submissive men have insulted or threatened me in any of their messages in the last year?  Literally thousands.

When are you going to wake the fuck up and realize that the Maledom world isn’t the problem?

The bigots are not the problem.  Bigots exist in every group.  One of you go ask a gay or a trans or a black or a Muslim person how many times they’ve dealt with bigots.

They still have the strength to be who they are in the face of bigotry.  Why don’t you?

Male Doms, even the assholes, are not the problem.  Submissive women, even the bitches, are not the problem.  Vanilla people are not the problem.

You are the fucking problem.

I’ve been a Domme for 15 years.  And for 15 years, I’ve consistently had submissive men be ashamed of me.  It doesn’t matter that I don’t shout from the rooftops that he’s my submissive.  It doesn’t matter that I work hard, and will outright lie, to protect him from being found out.

Because A) our private life is no one else’s business, and B) his ego is too fragile to handle being found out.  So I work to keep it from happening.  And there is nothing I won’t do or say to protect him.

I will imply that he’s the dominant partner in a vanilla relationship, and if it’s discovered that we’re kinky, I’ll say he’s the Dom (once, when an ex’s sister found a pink collar with the word “Bitch” on it in rhinestones, and he panicked, I told her that he was the Dom, and I was the sub, and I wore the collar.  That’s the most extreme, but it’s not the only time I’ve claimed to be the sub).

I’ll tell his friends I suck his cock every day, or that I let him fuck me in the ass.  I’ll change details of real stories to make him seem like “the man,” like I did when Kazander told his friends I’d arranged to have a stripper suck his cock.  I’ll tell his family that I hurry to fulfill his every beck and call, which is why Kazander still brags to his family and friends that he never changed a diaper.  I’ve overheard his guy friends tell him he has me well trained.  I don’t care.  You know, it’s the whole I-don’t-give-a-shit-what-people-think-of-me-thing, and the my-self-worth-is-not-tied-into-other-people’s-opinions-of-me thing.

Some of his guy friends think I’m a pushover.  Some of them, because of things he’s said and things I have said and done, don’t respect me at all.

Go ahead.  Ask me if I care.

I do all that, I go that far out of my way, and I will continue to do it, because I can handle it.  I can handle people, even people I see and interact with on a regular basis, even relatives and family friends, not thinking highly of me.

I will always do it, with every sub who needs it, because he is worth it to me.  Because I care more about him than I do anyone else.  And I’ve been dealing with it for 15 years.  It’s nothing for me to deal with it.  I recognize that it’s not nothing for someone who has never dealt with it to be thrown into that.  So I will happily and proudly protect him.  As long as that’s enough, I’m content and happy.

But most of the time, that’s still not enough.  He’s still too ashamed.  Both of himself, and of me.

“No!  No one can ever know about you!  What if someone finds out?  What if something happens?  What if something slips out?  What if someone walks in on us?  What if someone finds out that I like pick-a-fetish?  I just can’t handle it.  I can’t be proud and unapologetic of who I am!  I have to be like everyone else, so people don’t make fun of me!”

You deal with that fucking bullshit for 15 years, and then you tell me how I shouldn’t be jaded and guarded when I get messages from people I don’t know.  You deal with being someone’s dirty secret for 15 years, and then you tell me I’m being too hostile.

Go on.  I’ll wait.

Fuck the vanilla world and the Maledom world.  You’re the ones we care about.  And you’re the ones who are hitting us the hardest.  Because you’re too busy caring about everyone else more than you care about us.

Want to know why the stigma against submissive men is still going strong?  Despite all the shit I’m going to explain, complete with links to the polls and studies, in my next post?

It’s because you’re all ashamed.  You’re too scared and too weak and too pathetic to come out and say it’s okay.

Because you’re too damn weak to stand up and say, “Yeah, this is who I am.  Don’t like it?  Fuck you.”

And that stigma is never going to change as long as you children can’t man the fuck up and be who you are.  You’re all still stuck in high school, worried about being made fun of by the jocks and the cool kids.

No but yeah, keep whining about how hard it is to be a submissive man in today’s world.  Keep telling me how it feels to know that the vanilla world and the Maledom world don’t respect you.  Keep telling me just how awful it is.

And then go to a munch, and look at all the Dominant women there, and count how many of them have a submissive man willing to be seen in public with them.  Count how many of them have met their sub’s friends and family.  Count how many of them have ever been seen as anything more than a dirty fucking secret.

Count how many submissive men are proud to be with the women who want them.

Seriously, many of you are even worse than the bigots.  And you’re too busy being self-centered, insecure children to even notice what you’re doing to the women who love you.

So yeah, that Dom had the right idea.  Be a fucking man.

If I’m man enough to be myself despite the fact that a hefty chunk of the population disapproves, if I’m man enough to tell the world to fuck off when they tell me I shouldn’t be who I am and want what I want, if I’m man enough to break free from the sheep,  then I fucking expect it of the actual men around me.

Lupus non curat iudicia ovium, bitches.  The wolf doesn’t care about the opinions of sheep.

So which one are you?


13 thoughts on “Wake-up call

  1. collaredmichael says:

    Hmmmm. Outing myself. I often tell people I need to check with my wife prior to doing anything. Hats a pretty submissive thing to “have” to do. I have told people my wife is in charge albeit often in a joking manner. My family have been told she’s the boss. But no one thinks I’m submissive because I’m dominant within my family. I’m dominant at my job. I tend to be dominant within my friend circle too. So everyone always thinks I am joking. Oh and another thing, I try to give everyone respect. Who am I to think less about somebody else? For any reason. This world could be a much better place if we were all more respectful in general.

    • Domina Jen says:

      You’re right, it would be.

      But no, I’m not necessarily talking about outing yourself. I’m talking about the men who are so terrified of the possibility, no matter how remote, that they won’t even be seen in a vanilla context with their Domme. Or the men who are too scared to show up at a munch.

  2. Coyote from Orion says:

    Helpful check up from the neck up regardless of how much applies. Can only benefit from taking on board what you have explained in detail. A shame really that you have to do more work to be heard… as a friend and acquaintance in blogging feel free to say so if you don’t feel I am listening i hope your weekend is good. Thank you for caring enough time to communicate all that you. I find many people don’t even let you finish your sentence… one look and they know all about us. Long ago I realized I will only ever change myself if I am lucky x

  3. Polthus says:

    Terrific post that’s only slightly painful to to read. ‘Only slightly’ because it was you who snapped me out of this mindset. That said, there are certain realities men have had to deal with in the day-to-day of things that would make [or have made] being out a suicidal move. I am not saying this to excuse the behavior, but…well, I will respond at length with my own post instead of muddling through it here.

    Bottom line is that this is a stiff dose of medicine a lot of subs need to take. After all, If you can’t ‘man up’ enough to hear the truth about how you’ve been hurting those who love you – and lack the spine to take action – then what makes you worthy of being anyone’s boy?

    I thought you beat me to the punch with this post, but the truth is it will be the exclamation point on my proposition.

    • Domina Jen says:

      Thank you, boy. But again, I’m not talking about shouting it from the rooftops. I’m not talking about telling family, coworkers, whatever. It’s none of their business.

      But when a sub can’t be out in kinky events, with other kinky people (like a munch or play party), when he’s too ashamed of being seen in public with his Domme in vanilla situations (like if you had refused to go out to dinner with me when I went to see you), or if he refuses to introduce his Domme to his family or friends, even if they’ve been in a committed relationship for years (like if Kazander had refused to allow me to interact with his family/friends), *then* I have a problem.

      None of the vanillas ever knew you were my boy when we were together. None of Kazander’s family and friends know. And that’s fine, I’m completely content with that. I’m not saying we have to be out to the vanilla world. But for many, *many* men, that’s still too much of a risk.

      Because it’s always possible that someone could find out. It’s always possible you could be hit by lightning, too. And should that happen, they can’t be men enough to say, “This is what I want, and fuck the sheep who say I shouldn’t.”

      For them, it’s too much of a risk. They’re too ashamed, they refuse to be seen with me even in a vanilla context. Or at a munch.

      And those people are cowards, and I’m kind of done doing the gentle, compassionate, oh-honey-it’s-okay, you’re-still-a-special-snowflake thing. They need to man the fuck up and stop being children.

  4. S.R. Taylor says:

    *slow hand clap , kneeling ovation for this post.* fucking well said.

  5. furcissy says:

    Thank you for sharing this with us, Miss Jen.

    It’s frustrating to hear of the habits of many submissive men. When I successfully court a dominant woman I’m excited as can be and feel like the luckiest guy in the entire world. Getting hung up on insecurities and self-consciousness just seems… wasteful, pointless, and painful.

    At times like these I really don’t mind that I never had a successful vanilla relationship last longer than a month. My D/s relationships have all lasted much longer and I was just so happy that someone wanted to be with me that I didn’t even mind blatantly outing myself even though I knew I didn’t have to. And yes, I was planning on introducing my beautiful and amazing 51-year old BBW Domme girlfriend to my family when I was 25. That meeting never happened but I introduced her to all of my friends. The thing is with good friends is that they were so happy for me that I was in love.

    I can’t imagine taking a relationship for granted. It’s almost like their cowardly behavior stems from egotistical vanity… that they can just go get another Domme whenever they want and it’s not worth getting over their shit or respecting someone as a person. Kinda* makes me want to throat punch people that are like that.

    I’m more worried that she is going to be ashamed of being with me in public or showing me to her friends.

    Take care.

    *I used “kinda” instead of “really” so that I can still maintain my pacifist image that I would be deathly ashamed of if it were ever tarnished.

    • Domina Jen says:

      That’s an amazing mindset, and very rare among submissive men. I’m like you, though. None of my vanilla relationships ever worked for very long, and I always felt stifled and unfulfilled.

      But that’s exactly what I want from submissive men. They should be proud to introduce their Domme to their families (not necessarily as their Domme, but as their girlfriend or significant other).

      Lol and I definitely agree, I *kinda want to punch them in the throat too. I say kinda because, for as annoying as I can get with some of them, I still adore and love submissive men, and they’re still my favorite people.

      • furcissy says:

        Thank you, Miss Jen.

        I didn’t intend to necessarily announce that I was a sub, but I felt “preparing” them in advance as there would inevitably be questions as to why my new girlfriend was only 1 year in age difference from my mother. I take a hardline stance with my family and I hoped to avoid any awkward comments that would have me leaping over the dinner table to hold up my middle fingers 2″ from their face 🙂

        Unfortunately it ended, in part because she was too embarrassed to introduce me to her family.

        If anyone ever calls me pussy whipped, I quickly inform them that they forgot the “proudly” adverb within that statement. If anyone tries to tell me how I am supposed to love I inform them where they can go next.

        I love it when I am happy and would never dream of hiding it.

        Take care and thank you so much for everything you share with us.

  6. Mykey says:

    Hmmmm fair point.

    I hope I’ve not been like this

  7. […] sans ego – can be a way forwards as to how I present myself to the world. Recently, V posted a “Wake-Up Call” on the topic, and her chastisement of submissive guys who are ashamed of their role and/or the […]

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